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| FakeBase Forums : General Discussions |
Area for general discussions on fakes and forgeries.
Please keep the discussion in english! |
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| Answer to Toke Nørby |
| Bjørn Hinnerichsen on 10-12-2009 |
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Hi Toke, I must confess, that I disagree completely with you. Fakebase's first and most important aim is to search and spot possible fakes on the net. This can only be done in a quick and sometimes impulsive way by the contributors of Fakebase. If an 'expert-panel' should give their opinion immediately, the auctions would be over long before, this may have happened. Auctions last between 3 and 8 days.
Second aim is to spread information to the visitors of Fakebse, and I believe many people have learned a lot in an entertaining an informative way. Some may even be able to spot fakes by themselves now.
And yes, I have done mistakes myself. Within the last week I can pick two examples of 'right' or 'wrong' from the same seller on eBay.de. First 'The Zeppelin Fake' http://www.fakebase.dk/showalert.asp?item=811 which was a real and wellknown fake. Withdrawn by seller at once! Second '10 kop 1856' http://www.fakebase.dk/showalert.asp?item=812 Alas, the item was genuine. Withdrawn by seller anyway. Why? Because I told him to get an expert opinion (Cyril Swenson) before selling an item like this on eBay. Here is his last mail to me:
Dear bhi43,
Hello Bjørn
If you find in the future other fakes, please
tell me. In every time I
am grateful for so
information.
Udo
Not so bad, even if the item was genuine!
Toke, you enter the side as an 'outsider' (new visitors are always welcome) and try to change the system, because you prefer faultless and 100% safe reports. This would completely destroy the unique 'soul' of the site. Here all opinions and suggestions can be made, discussed, accepted or refused. All collectors, experts or beginners can contribute. This is NOT an 'expert' site!
By the way, did you ever report a fake, contact the seller - and hopefully kill the auction? I don't remember.
A couple of years ago I contacted you and suggested, that you should put Fakebase on your linkpage. Did that ever happen? No. http://www.norbyhus.dk/
Kind regards Bjørn |
| RE:Answer to Toke Nørby |
| Toke Nørby on 11-12-2009 |
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Hej Bjørn
Every bird sings with its own næb (what the f... is næb in English?). People certainly don't have to agree with me and my opinion. What I wanted to point out is to me some obvious weakness of the system - which you seems to look at as a plus.
I don't have any wishes for changing anything here but I point out something that to me is foolish (that I should spend a lot of time arguing for something that obvious is genuine). Such an items should be removed at once - and not put in a folder with genuine stamps - there is no need for such a folder in a fakebase :-)
It's not an expert site? That's a pity - as an expert site would have much respect out there. If should be in my opinion. But if not - you will have people uploading everything and strange discussions following the upload. I know, I know! Many of you ARE experts (I am an expert too and have even made certificates - not many, but some).
Bjørn, I'm pleased that you took time to write against my opinion. Believe, I don't have any wishes for changing the system I just point out something so you can take it into account - if you want.
Besides, I know that I have not time for this kind of play. I prefer to write about postal history and stamps instead. My contribution to 'us' is my book on 4.300 Danish postal employees 1624-1983 (704 pages and it took me 7 years to finish it). Tomorrow I will ask my printer when he will have time to print my new book on some Danish stamps - 256 pages - so I like much more to do such things instead of fighting against forgeries!
You ask me if I ever have reported a forgery. Oh, well. But the police inspectors would not put the guy between bars!!! Ask Michael Appel if you are curious ;-) (Michael - did I ever told you that I sent the police inspector a letter with a forged cancel with his name? because I disliked his decision! ha! - he never answered back).
Link to fakebase - ooops! Yeah, I remember your kind e-mail and I promise that I this weekend will upload a link (on my hopeless outdated link-page!) well, it's never too late.
Enough! I hope that you will change re-read what I wrote as a site like this could have very much more respect out there if you were all experts - but people don't have time for that. I know.
Mvh
Toke |
| RE:Answer to Toke Nørby |
| Bjørn Hinnerichsen on 11-12-2009 |
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Hi again,
I have thinking about it over night, and now I belive, I have found a way to characterize Fakebase: A 'NGO-group' at the frontier of the battlefield of fakes. Acting in a quick, effective and non-bureacratic way. No, we are not a High Court with judges giving absolute verdicts. Let the 'experts' do that.
Respect? Yes, by and by we have gained a lot of respect. From private sellers, dealers, auction firms - and even from QXL, where DFF gave up!
The contributors may be specialized collectors, experts or quite 'normal' people. For my own part I know a lot about Finnish philately, but not everything. Luckily I have friends and contacts in Finland, where I can get more exact information, if my own knowledge is insufficiant.
Now finish your books - and when your projects are over, we shall be happy to have you back here. As an equal among equals!
And please remember to add not only Fakebase but also OvalPoint (www.ovalpoint.com) to your linkpage.
Kind regards Bjørn |
| RE:Answer to Toke Nørby |
| JuhaT on 11-12-2009 |
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RE: genuine items archived at FakeBase
I find the system good. Some of us may find some items not quite right.
Knowing why they are OK after all, is interesting knowledge also to us others.
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| RE:Answer to Toke Nørby |
| Toke Nørby on 12-12-2009 |
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Bjørn
Again, I don't have any intentions to change anything here. Michael and Jens are doing a great job by keeping this site running and it's obvious that many of the users have great respect for that. But, again, another way to moderate the uploads would probably have the result that some of our well known experts would join. As long as 'everything suspicious' is shown without moderating I think that they stay away.
We have some very well known experts in Denmark, Carl Aage Møller (he is a Bundesprüfer) and Lasse Nielsen - and some more 'unknown' (Sorry Jens :-) but if e.g. Carl Aage could contribute to this site or even FIP with its 'FFE Journal - Fakes Forgeries Experts' could be involved this would be great - have you ever asked them?
JuhaT
The problem is not the archived genuine stamps - it's the process before moving the item to that archive. A seller of a genuine item can have his auction (whatever) destroyed because I upload his material here. It would be much better if Michael or Jens could take a look at it and be told why the uploader will upload it here - before it's released for discussion. We have even seen an uploader write: 'I am a little angry to see all these stamps again and again' (I'm still your friend, Rodger! ;-). We shouldn't be 'angry' but very cool and in my opinion (anyone asked for it? ;-) it's much better to show it in connection of the general description of these stamps - like the imperforate 4 sk. instead of moving it to an archive with a few comments
Link
I'll upload a lin to fakebase - of course (sorry that I haven't done that before) but I will not link to the ovalpoint.com - I think it's sufficient to have links to major Danish sites but if I should include all relevant pages, I could not do anything else but maintaining all the links! In the old days when I uploaded my home page in 1995(!) there was a need for links to important sites. Nowadays I nearly don't use my own link-page but ask 'uncle Google' instead - much faster and you get normally a bunch of similar pages (which I then should include on my link-page, so. The only link-page which always is up to date at my site is the list of collectors.
Bjørn you write that 'you will be happy to have me back' - are you sure? ;-) well, just joking. I visit fakebase from time to time.
Merry Christmas
Toke
(Did you know that Santa should be fined driving too fast in his sledge on Christmas evening? If he should deliver gifts to all kids in the world the speed of his sledge would exceed the speed of the light! - so even Santa is a fake - sob!)
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| RE:Answer to Toke Nørby |
| Toke Nørby on 12-12-2009 |
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Hej Bjørn. Now I have added a link to FakeBase on my link page. Sorry it took about a year to do that!
Mvh
Toke |
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